Guys, I'm worried about Nintendo...

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  • [url]http://www.joystiq.com/2011/10/27/nintendo-predicts-first-annual-loss-since-getting-on-with-donkey/[/url]

    *sigh*

    Okay, this is going to be really embarrassing. I've only told this to a couple people on this forum. (Archelon and Serria, I believe) But, I'll just come out with it. I like Nintendo. A lot. Yes, I know, they're a giant soulless corporation that sees me as a consumer, but to me, they're a lot more than that. They were how I spent nights with my friends, eating Ellios cheese pizza and playing Mario until way past our bedtimes. They were my outlet after I had a crappy day at school and got beat up by bullies, I'D be the bully beating up Mike Tyson. Hell, Nintendo has a big part of the relationship between my fiance and I, as we're both diehard Pokenerds.

    Sure, I've been moving towards other consoles on other systems at this point, but there's this magic with the Wii that you just can touch. I know that most of you aren't happy with Nintendo's current direction, I know I'd be one of them, but I'll be the first to admit, when Skyward Sword comes out, I'll be the first in line and, until it's complete, Nintendo will be the greatest company ever. And as much as people bemoan the lack of games, let's be honest, the first year and a half of the system's life, with Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, No More Heroes, Metroid Prime 3, and Smash Bros. Brawl, was absolute fucking GOLD.

    But since then, it went downhill, not so much for Nintendo but for the core gamers whom they were no longer providing for. Add that in to the gigantic misstep of the 3DS launch and the iffy reaction to the Wii U, and Nintendo's sales, their stock, and now, their profits have dropped to their lowest in years, which have been leading a lot of analysts, journalists, and experts to say that it could be time for Nintendo to follow the same route Sega took ten years ago, and drop hardware to solely publish games for other consoles, with Sony and Microsoft cleaning up in consoles and Apple becoming the new standard-bearer in handhelds, with Sony's Vita close behind.

    I'll be honest, of everything going on in my life right now, finally moving into an apartment, starting a new job, getting married in less than six months...THIS scares the hell out of me the most. Go ahead and laugh, I don't blame you, but Nintendo suffering, in my opinion, the ultimate punishment for any game hardware manufacturer would honestly, really hurt. I'd cry. A lot.

    (Yes, I know I need therapy.)

    Yes, I know that Nintendo has been in this situation before. People said the situation was equally grim after the GameCube fell on deaf ears and Microsoft rose to take their place. Now, a new player, Apple, clearly wants a piece of the gaming pie, but can't find a slice for themselves. Take out one of the eaters, however...

    But I just think that this is different. The industry is VASTLY different than ten years ago, and when you ask, well, pretty much anyone whose opinion matters, my fears are going to be realized pretty damn soon. So I'm asking you guys, DO I have a reason to be worried? Or no? Or should I just be condemned to a mental hospital?

    (Yeah, most of you will choose the third option. I would.)

  • I don't really like to do it but...

    I told you so. (forgot to add me in that "knows you're a ninty fanboy" list)

    This actually sort of marks a turning point for you, since a lot of Nintendo fans I know STILL aren't worried about Nintendo, and would even go so far as plug their ears and scream "LALALALA IM NOT LISTENING" as loud as possible. The fact that you're acknowledging things are bad is a good thing, since it means you're more open to ways that Nintendo could fix things in the short-term.

    Nintendo banked too heavily on the "blue ocean" strategy, and it turned into a "red ocean" without them realizing it.

    They'll probably be fine, maybe relegated to a niche manufacturer again that makes a quality system and quality games (if few and far between) with little in the way of third party support, and this cycle will repeat with a great "hit" sometime in the future.

  • I would probably play my Wii with more anticipation if Tales of Graces F were actually being ported over on its original system. Same with the No More Heroes combo. But neither is happening, and personally, I've nothing to be excited about ( go ahead and shun me, but I was never THAT big on Zelda games, because I sucked at them, so Skyward Sword isn't on my list of must have games )

  • Quantum, I'm pretty sure we all knew you were a huge Nintendo fanboy. No surprises there. But you know what? I'm just as big a fan as you are!

    I've had my 3DS since launch (while actually buying it and paying in full much much before launch thanks to Gamstop's preordered system), sat outside of Gamestop like a creep waiting for them to open on launch day, sat outside of Toys R Us for even longer waiting for them to open to buy games. I even bought Steel Diver, a mediocre game I would otherwise pass up JUST because I had faith in Nintendo. I bring my 3DS everywhere I go hoping to get a streetpass (sometimes I get one at school but honestly most streetpasses come from cons). I have more games for my Nintendo systems than for any other system. I have many many Nintendo related plushies, keychains, etc. including plushies literally bigger than my head. I'm much more excited about Super Mario 3D Land and Skyward Sword than I am about any other game at the moment. Most people assume my favorite game is Phoenix Wright or something but no, nothing will ever beat Super Mario. I literally grew up with Nintendo (my mom even has a photo of me as a baby at a video game convention with official Mario and Princess Toadstool costumed characters) and I've never outgrown Nintendo.

    So basically? I'm a huge, HUGE Nintendo fan. But lately they've been really worrying me. Even though they basically keep releasing the same games with different graphics (face it, Pokemon, Mario and Zelda don't really change much from game to game) but those games are still fun and I still want to see more of them. What I really want to see though are new IPs and variations on old games. I bought Steel Diver since it was a new IP but it turned out to really be more like a 6 stage tech demo. Other than that when they make something new it's something like Nintendogs (dude, virtual pet simulators have been around since I was a child), Brain Age, Wii Fit, etc. I want to see the passion and creativity that they had back in the days when they first created Mario, Metroid, Zelda, etc. Back when they were inventing entire genres and creating the molds that shaped the way a lot of modern games are now, instead of just trying to fit the mold while creating mediocre games similar to ones we've played before. Or I want them to use that creativity on their existing franchises, similar what they're doing to Kirby in a way. While Return to Dreamland is more of the same, I like the experimentation used in Canvas Curse, Mass Attack, and Epic Yarn. I want to see that type of thing in other games. Mario did it somewhat with Mario Kart, Mario RPG, Paper Mario, even stuff like Sunshine with FLUDD and Galaxy with the gravity and strange planets, and I want to see more of that type of thing, and I'm sure other gamers do as well. But you know what I want to see? I want to se radical changes to other games, like Zelda. I want to see Link as a space warrior saving the galaxy from Space Pirate Ganon with his Master Lightsaberblastergunthingy while piloting his ship Epona. I want to see Samus's Undersea Adventure or Pokemecha or something. And unlike something like Shadow the Hedgehog, I have confidence in Nintendo to do something radical and be able to totally pull it off tastefully.

    Quantum, I'm with you. I'm fucking SCARED about losing Nintendo. All that stuff I said about wishing they'd do something radical? Well, they've been trying to do radical things like motion, 3D gaming, and changing their core audience. Sometimes trying something crazy is just... well, crazy. In a bad way.

    I want to plug my ears and yell "LALALA NOT LISTENING!" like Pliskin said, but even I am getting a little worried for Nintendo. I hope they can pull through!

  • [QUOTE=Pliskin;4181229]I don't really like to do it but...[/QUOTE]

    LIAR! XD

    [QUOTE=Pliskin;4181229]
    They'll probably be fine, maybe relegated to a niche manufacturer again that makes a quality system and quality games (if few and far between) with little in the way of third party support, and this cycle will repeat with a great "hit" sometime in the future.[/QUOTE]

    I agree.

    [QUOTE=DarkFujin;4181491]
    What I really want to see though are new IPs and variations on old games.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. But what I really want to see is more games that fully utilize the unique Wii and DS functions. I know that I keep harping on Ivy the Kiwi?, Henry Hatsworth and TWEwY but those are three games that could not exist as they are on any other console. Without the stylus and dual screen they would be completely different games. But these are the only ones I've played that I think are like that. Only three. And I can't think of a single one on the Wii, though I admit that I gave up on the Wii quite a while ago. And there is a Wii version of Ivy the Kiwi? IMO, Nintendo needs to develop these kinds of games themselves since it seems that, for whatever reason, 3rd party either can't or won't.

  • I wrote a big long thing, but then I read it and I didn't like it.

    You wanna know what I think? Nintendo hasn't been relevant as related to video games for 3 years. The last truly noteworthy game on the Wii, the one that demanded everyone's attention, was Mario Galaxy 2. The 3DS feels more like a gimmick as days go on and with each passing news day, it feels like Nintendo is struggling to keep the hardware relevant. Circle pad extenders here, smart phone add-ons there, it feels like they missed the fact that the rest of the world was changing technologically and are just now getting the hint. Now, I'm not saying that the idea of the DS is dead all together, but the 3DS certainly wasn't the right answer. In a lot of ways, nintendo is lucky, they can still recover, although they'll lose a lot of face. A more dedicated smaller form DS that allows for cell service and an android backbone would, at the very least, allow them to attempt to combat apple's stranglehold and prevent them from dictating how the next generation of mobile games is going to go. But that idea is pretty wild for a company that's been so stuck in its ways.


    You know what makes me feel good about the Wii-U? The fact that it supports unreal engine 3. The fact that it can support frostbite. The fact that, at the end of the day, they are on candidate lists for engines that most 3rd party developers will use. It allows them to make comparible looking versions of games that are on the competition so 3rd party developers don't have to make a completely different game everytime they want to cater to the Wii audience; and let's face it. Right now, don't no one wanna ship anything on Wii, they haven't for some time. Even sure fire killers like Monster Hunter Tri was watered down when compared to its PSP counterpart. So forget about this tablet controller, forget about the waggle, forget about screens in screens, the reason why Wii-U could work is because the fundamental software background for the platform is FAR stronger than it ever has been in the past. Someone over there (I and emphesis someone, because it's not iwata and it's not miyamoto) is at least trying to future proof this thing. The only worry is that they're not looking far enough down the road. I really wish this cycle of japanese in house secrecy would end because these cats seriously need to talk to epic, talk to EA, talk to Ubisoft, talk to the big western houses and find out what they need in order to stay appealing. Nintendo isn't the only one guilty of doing this, but they more than anyone (...well, Capcom needs to do it more) need to break out of this mold of tradition and figure out how they're going to keep this thing competitive in the next generation. Microsoft, for the next xbox, has a kinect that WORKS; the PS4 will ship with the new generation of move; it's going to take more than a tablet gimmick to keep this thing in the public interest for longer than a few months.

    When Cave Story went to DS-ware and Wii-Ware, I thought it would be the big ushering in of indie development for Nintendo. Then Cave Story 3DS came out and I could not be more disappointed in the direction they took. They need to fix that because right now, both Wii-Ware and 3DS-Ware is a joke and a waste of everyone's time.

    I dunno, Zelda Skyward Sword will be good, edge gave it a 10/10 which never happens. Apparently people are saying it's the game that finally realizes the Wii's true potentially, which is outstanding; but disappointing that it took the very last game in the Wii's lifecycle to get it all figured out. And beyond that, I don't see Nintendo having anything of note ready before the end of the fiscal year. I know people are freaking out a lot about them losing money for the first time, but it was only 243 million. Sony lost 1.2 BILLION last QUARTER. Granted, sony has it's own problems and their future outlook seems to be, at least at this point, a little steadier.

    I mean, the laundry list of things Nintendo needs to do to stay in the game is sooooo long. It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long you guys, they haven't made any real strides in even coming close to what the competition has in terms of services or accessibility. They keep wasting time with things like the heartbeat sensor, and even then, they're going to get undercut by Sony or Microsoft with their new patent for heartbeat and skin moisture sensors that are built into the controllers.

    Nintendo makes it hard for me to care about them. They have not given me what I wanted in video games for a long time, and everytime someone tries to do something I like as related to video games on the Wii, the limitations of the system destroy any interest I could muster. The best version of Guilty Gear is on the Wii. Guys, I fucking love Guilty Gear. I love it. I really do, but the last thing I wanna do is play Guilty Gear on the Wii because of...all of it's control schemes. And I could get a stick, and then play Tatsunoko but the online is terrible because there's no backbone system for the wii. I could play a shooter (oh wait there aren't any worth playing) or a sports game (oh wait, they're all different and vastly inferior to anything on the other systems) or a racing game (oh wait, motion controls, inferiority, there aren't any worth playing that aren't Mario Kart, and even then, it's not the kind of mario kart I want)...I dunno. Even when I look at games of merrit on the system like Madworld or Tatsunoko or Boy and his Blob or Muramasa, the only thing that goes through my head is, THIS GAME WOULD LOOK SO MUCH MORE AMAZING IF IT WERE IN HD!! WHY ISN'T THIS IN HD!?!?! And then I research whether or not Dolphin will work with my computer, and it won't, and I get frustrated at Nintendo even further.

    I feel like...if I wanted to write a post about what I want nintendo to do, It would be 10 pages at the minimum, mostly because they've never really done what I want them to do. They do some good things, but then screw up others so badly. It's the most frustrating when they present an idea that's genuinely good, but then do nothing with it (gameboy/gamecube link cable, why wasn't this used for EVERYTHING?!? You're just now making it the crux of your new console when everyone else has the ability to do it! And now the Vita can do that stuff wirelessly as well! Wasted opportunity!).

    I dunno man. The next xbox is dropping in 2013, probably along side the PS4. Wii-U has a lot of potential, but I don't see them doing enough to keep themselves from getting Dreamcasted. They need to do better. They need to take that Wii money, start hitting the streets hard and figuring out what people world wide want instead of continually catering to the japanese market. You can't just do that and succeed, it's why so many japanese dev houses are folding. They should have purchased inafune's new studio before Zenamax did or tried to devour Platnium games. So much talent is shifting around and Nintendo is ignoring all of it...

    ::Sigh:: I dunno. It makes me wonder if I need Nintendo anymore. It makes me go back to my SNES days and think about those great games and then really consider how many meaningful games I played back then were due to Nintendo.

    They need to do more. A lot more. Just...more of everything.

    I wanna say a lot more about how Nintendo regards indie development, especially since they made stores on all their systems SPECIFCALLY FOR THAT, but they keep letting things like [URL="http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/11/02/%E2%80%9Cwhere-is-my-heart%E2%80%9D-hits-psn-next-week-free-for-playstation-plus/"]this [/URL]get away from them! DAMNIT NINTENDO, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED RIGHT NOW!

  • I'd be a lot worry should the Wii U tank. Not for nothing we all had a good laugh at the Wii & DS before they dropped (at least I did), and look how well those sold. Nintendo has a lot to do to make me care about them again though. "The Other M" was the final straw for me, and I'm not buying another Nintendo product*/game until they can prove to me that their stuff is worth my time.

    *Figma Samus doesnt count!

  • I typed up a big long message and then my browser crashed and I lost it, so I'm going to try again but may have lost some of my points along the way haha

    [QUOTE=The Hag;4181600]
    I agree. But what I really want to see is more games that fully utilize the unique Wii and DS functions. I know that I keep harping on Ivy the Kiwi?, Henry Hatsworth and TWEwY but those are three games that could not exist as they are on any other console. Without the stylus and dual screen they would be completely different games. But these are the only ones I've played that I think are like that. Only three. And I can't think of a single one on the Wii, though I admit that I gave up on the Wii quite a while ago. And there is a Wii version of Ivy the Kiwi? IMO, Nintendo needs to develop these kinds of games themselves since it seems that, for whatever reason, 3rd party either can't or won't.[/QUOTE]

    Another game I can think of off the top of my head is Away: Shuffle Dungeon. Basically there's a maze going across both screens and after a certain amount of time (couple seconds or whatever) one of the screens will shift to a different half of the maze. Then the other screen will (or the same one, each dungeon has its own rules regarding the pattern of what shits and the amount of time before it shifts). Of course, you don't want to be on the screen that's changing, so you have to be constantly moving back and forth across both screens while trying to solve the maze. The gameplay is pretty shallow and the whole gimmick relies upon the two screens, but the game is actually pretty fun.

    There are other games such as Ninja Gaiden and Okamiden that adapt to the touch screen really well. Of course, these games have existed and would have existed on the DS with or without the touch screen, but they decided to use the touch screen and used it pretty well. There are other games that are made more convenient with the second screen,such as Castlevania (you no longer have to pause the game to glance at the map) or RPGs where you look at your party's stats or whatever. Hell, even the trailer for the DS remake of Phoenix Wright has I think the judge joking about how Phoenix is much more organized now that he can see his evidence and testimony at the same time. These games aren't made by the DS's features like TWEWY, Away: Shuffle Dungeon, or Henry Hatsworth, and all of those games I mentioned have iterations on other consoles, but they sure as hell are made more convenient because of them.

    Of course, all of these games that we both mentioned are 3rd party games. I think part of the problem is that Nintendo has this technology out there but no one knows what to do with it. Nintendo needs to make better use of their own technology so they can set the example for 3rd parties. Same thing with the 3DS, but since the 3D itself isn't really a gameplay feature it's kind of hard to think of how it can improve a game. Zelda and Star Fox are more immersive with the 3D graphics, but I don't think gameplay should rely solely upon (to quote Muppetvision) "cheap 3D gimmicks" because not everyone can see the 3D (I think I recall Mesoian saying he can't? My sister also can't see the 3D). It looks like Super Mario 3D Land may use some "cheap 3D gimmicks" though, so we'll see.

    As for the 3DS's other technology, I don't think I've really seen the gyro controls used much besides for aiming in Zelda and the tilt mode in Star Fox (which I used for like, five seconds and then switched back to regular controls). I think Monkey Ball might use the gyro sensor? I'm not sure. The slide pad is something the regular DS should have had. Seriously Nintendo, don't start a system's launch with games such as Super Mario 64 and Metroid Prime but make the games almost unplayable due to the controls. The "thumb stylus" and touchscreen should not be a substitute for a slide pad! You kind of choked there, guys. The second slide pad should have totally been on the system in the first place as well. Another thing I think is kind of weird is that Nintendo isn't even making any games for the second pad, it seems more like a "oh okay, here guys go" afterthought.

    The DS has some of the most creative games I've seen though, whether they take full advantage of the technology or not. You mentioned Henry Hatsworth, TWEWY, and Ivy the Kiwi. Away: Shuffle Dungeon isn't one of my favorite games or anything but I feel like I need to praise it for being creative and original. Avalon Code, Scribblenauts (even with the control issues), Ghost Trick, 999, Trauma Center (even though it got made for the Wii later), Professor Layton, Big Bang Mini, Docomodake (for being basically an advertisement for a Japanese I think cell phone company? it's actually a pretty unique little game), etc etc. The DS really seemed to bring out the best in developers.



    As for the indie thing Mesoian mentioned, I'm pretty disappointed in Nintendo. There was the whole Super Meat Boy fiasco with Nintendo's restrictive size qualifications. Also the 3DS eShop is a total mess! I don't know what the DSi eShop is like (since these games are really DSi games anyway) but on the 3DS at least, it's impossible to navigate. Everything is split up into categories, but not normal categories such as "action" or "strategy", I mean weird categories such as "I'm on a Boat" (seriously, they had this one last week, it only had a submarine game and a bass fishing game in it). This week there are great categories such as "Hello? Looking for me?" and "Bring it!". Actually, it looks like it's getting a little more organized, maybe, with more categories such as "top-rated games" and "under $5" but still, I'm pretty sure that not every game is in a category, meaning you need to specifically search for it, meaning you need to know what you're looking for anyway, meaning that browsing the categories is kind of meaningless anyway.What I do is when something catches my eye, I put it on my wishlist so I can find it again later, otherwise I'll never find it again and I'll never be able to remember the name of it. It's just, I dunno, they make it really hard to find indie games. Of course, there are always categories for stuff like Mario games, Gameboy classics, and other Nintendo-related things. Really easy to find those!

  • [QUOTE=DarkFujin;4181891]As for the indie thing Mesoian mentioned, I'm pretty disappointed in Nintendo. There was the whole Super Meat Boy fiasco with Nintendo's restrictive size qualifications. [/QUOTE]

    Machinarium was also canceled for all Nintendo platforms today for similar reasons.

    Dumb.

  • [QUOTE=Starwind824;4181819]I'd be a lot worry should the Wii U tank. Not for nothing we all had a good laugh at the Wii & DS before they dropped (at least I did), and look how well those sold. Nintendo has a lot to do to make me care about them again though. "The Other M" was the final straw for me, and I'm not buying another Nintendo product*/game until they can prove to me that their stuff is worth my time.

    *Figma Samus doesnt count![/QUOTE]

    I love you, Chris (you know that), but...

    -- Forgetting M:OM was Team Ninja, not Nintendo
    -- Forgetting Skyward Sword

  • Team Ninja handled the gameplay mechanics and graphics, it wasn't made entirely by them. Nintendo's own Yoshio Sakamoto was responsible for the entire plot and script, for example, and Nintendo artists still designed the characters.

  • [QUOTE=Quantum9;4182168]I love you, Chris (you know that), but...

    -- Forgetting M:OM was Team Ninja, not Nintendo
    -- Forgetting Skyward Sword[/QUOTE]

    There's a huge difference between forgetting and no caring. And again, I'm not that big of a Zelda guy to begin with, especially when I have a ton of stuff to play now that is a lot more relevant to my interests.

    And Nintendo handled the story/direction of the game, not team Ninja. The Ninja stuff I liked. But no, the 3DS has like may 2 games I care for, and the Wii U will be "OH WORD, LOOK WHAT WE HAVE COMING OUT? WHEN? FUCK IF WE KNOW!", much like the 3DS before it.

  • [QUOTE=Starwind824;4182290]There's a huge difference between forgetting and no caring. And again, I'm not that big of a Zelda guy to begin with, especially when I have a ton of stuff to play now that is a lot more relevant to my interests.

    And Nintendo handled the story/direction of the game, not team Ninja. The Ninja stuff I liked. But no, the 3DS has like may 2 games I care for, and the Wii U will be "OH WORD, LOOK WHAT WE HAVE COMING OUT? WHEN? FUCK IF WE KNOW!", much like the 3DS before it.[/QUOTE]

    ...You should be excited about Skyward Sword.

    I know. I know. But seriously. Yeah.

  • I don't mean to berate Nintendo or any of its fans, but even a blind man could tell that Nintendo is slowly, but surely dying.

    Back in my youth, the SNES and the 64 was all that I had. After coming home from elementary school and watching Sailor Moon on Toonami, I fired up Ocarina of Time and gave myself sleep-depraving nightmares upon reaching the Shadow Temple; I never really cared for Mario until I received Paper Mario a few days before 9/11, and that game really helped me cope with that event. As a teen, I spent most of my time wandering around the village in Animal Crossing or wondering if this cel-shaded Link would live up to the hype- a few years later, a different Link changed how I thought about the Zelda series as a whole.

    About a year ago, I sold my Wii to help pay for some finances, as there was nothing left to play, despite loving No More Heroes and slamming my controller in frustration at Super Mario Galaxy. I feel as if Nintendo no longer wishes to cater in to the older crowd, and instead rely on young children to buy their somewhat sub-par selection of games.

    To see that Nintendo could follow the path of its former rival is scary, if not frightening; Skyward Sword and the Wii-U could be the final nail in the coffin.

  • In today's gaming world, Angry Birds sold 500 million downloads already and Modern Warfare 3 is about to break another sales record.

    It's all about the "America, F*ck Yeah!" shooters and the 99 cent mobile downloads. Microsoft and Apple seem to have control of them, respectively.

    If it makes you feel better, Sony's latest financial statements aren't looking too hot either.

    I like both Sony and Nintendo (excluding Nintendo of America, of course) better than Apple and Microsoft. I know I'm not supposed to like both Nintendo and Sony at the same time according to fanboy culture, but both look like they are on the losing end currently. I guess I care more about the kind of games they provide than loyalty to a corporation. Pretty weird, huh?