Fabric Choices + Lining Approach [Arsene, Persona 5]

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#1 StarsOfCassiopeia on 1 year ago

Hey all,

I'm going all in these next few months with some of my craziest builds yet, and the crown jewel of this madness is going to be Arsene from Persona 5.

(Talk about a demon of a build...)

For one, I've been waffling a bit on fabric choices, namely for the red parts (jacket, boots). These parts seem to be relatively stiff and have a slight shine, which makes me think pleather or vinyl or PVC. I'm worried about the shininess of PVC, but the stretch could be useful (such as on the boot covers) and it's probably (?) less terrible to wear directly against skin, if people make fully bodysuits of it. Opinions here?

Additionally, there's also the challenge of lining the jacket (if at all). I've got a serger so I'm not super concerned about raw edges if an unlined approach is the way to go. If you look at the inside of the collar (near the mask), it also looks like it's the same material as the outside. Wearing bare vinyl or pleather on my arms is kind of awful (been there, done that), so I figure probably a rayon lining for the sleeves? But a full lining would change the look of the inside collar, so that's out. It also seems stupid to do a full lining but piece it together from rayon + the collar part and the bottom of the jacket with the same fabric as the outside. That'd entail doing all of those seams a second time, and probably make it way stiffer/thicker/more uncomfortable.

TL;DR-- trying to balance shine & stiffness vs maybe a need for stretch on the boots, and also figure out what's the least uncomfortable fabric combination for wear-- thoughts?

#2 Penlowe on 1 year ago

Even unlined jackets have a piece called a facing. This is the part that you see when the collar is open exposing the 'inside' of the jacket. The facing is cut so the fabric is right side out when the collar is opened up. In a lined jacket there is a tricky seam where the lining and the facing meet that runs down the chest, but not impossible.

Stiffness can be acquired with any fabric, all you need is inner facing. It comes in several different weights, buy according to what you want your finished product to look like. The nice thing is that most inner facing can be bought in an iron on variety. Fuse it to your fabric before cutting and that's the only extra step necessary.

Lining fabrics are traditionally polyester, nylon, and blends of the two. The slick surface is desirable as it prevents bunching, allows other layers to slide underneath more easily and is cheap. The thing I don't like is it tends to build a static charge.

#3 CapsuleCorp on 1 year ago

The picture's too small to tell any details at all.

I don't know about people and their pvc bodysuits, there's no way in hell I'd ever wear it against my skin. The one time I had a pair of pvc pants (they lasted one day) they were actually underlined along the crotch and thigh.

But, there's something I'm not sure I understand about your explanation for the collar. Most collars, particularly lapel collars where the inside is actually the outside, are made 100% from the outer shell fabric, not the lining fabric. Most of the time, when you cut the 2 pieces for the collar they're both out of the same fabric. It has been extremely rare, in my long career, that I have used a separate lining fabric on a collar - contrast color ones, maybe, but only when it was obvious. So, you CAN fully line the coat, correctly, and have the collar inside be the same as the outside.

If you go pleather/vinyl/pvc you're going to want a lining for anything that isn't a bodysuit. Linings don't just hide seams, they also make it possible to slide sleeves on over other sleeves, cleanly finish edges, make your garment comfortable/allow for a washable layer between your skin and the outer shell, and most importantly, hide any interfacing you do use. Facings are a good solution for edge finishes but if you end up fusing interfacing to the entire body of the garment, that interfacing will rub against you and probably peel off after a couple wearings. Also note that fusing interfacing to vinyl is pretty damn difficult - I've melted more interfacing to my iron than to the fabric because of the touchiness of the heat.

#4 StarsOfCassiopeia on 1 year ago

Shoot sorry, thought I linked a high-res ref... try this: [url]https://wallpaperlovez.com/wp-content/uploads/Persona-5-Arsene-Best-Wallpapers-3EF.png[/url]

In retrospect my initial post was pretty ramble-y about what I'd considered already, and maybe not that useful. Let's try this again.

For one, I totally blanked on terminology there, because I was indeed talking about the facing. Kinda ended up babbling about potential fabric combos, like a potential vinyl/vinyl combo (jacket + facing), and the degree of awful that'd be to make/wear, and if there are any extra challenges to working with something so bulky at the seams. Also as an design opinion question, should I do a "facing" of sorts for the lower portion of the jacket too? It seems to flare out and away from the body, and in some of the animated sequences it looks like it's supposed to be the same material as the outside of the jacket (though it looks black in the concept art, sighs, gotta love inconsistency).

The interfacing was one of my potential concerns given the melting of any of these more plastic-y choices, though that can be mitigated with sew-in interfacing. Not too worried about that if it comes to needing it since my machine's pretty heavy duty.

The boots are also relevant here because the jacket and boots obvious need to match. While something like PVC would stretch around whatever my base shoes are and help with fitting it a little better, pleather/vinyl wouldn't really do that and it'd require some reaaaaaally careful patterning.

I guess a better question to ask is are there any pros/cons to these fabric types (PVC, vinyl, pleather) for this particular application that I'm missing? Originally I was thinking I could get away with an unlined jacket or just lining the sleeves since you don't *have* to do seam finishing on these plastics (because fraying isn't an issue), but alas, I should know better than to cut corners. :)

#5 Penlowe on 1 year ago

As to boots and patterning: use the tape method, it takes the math out of the equation.
Yes, you can do that on your own body, with or without shoes on, just use some plastic wrap first as a barrier between you/ your shoe and the tape. I like clear plastic packing tape over masking tape, YMMV. Doing this with duct tape is more expensive in materials and unnecessarily heavy duty (it's just a pattern, it doesn't need to be as tough as duct tape).

I understand your thought process in that stiff appearance = vinyl, but all the stuff you've linked seems to me to have a very matte surface. I would almost be inclined to go toward something with a soft fuzzy surface like a wool suiting or even a velour (velvet proper is too heavy a nap). Short Version: I don't see this as "stiff clothing" but instead "highly tailored structure" more like a mens business suit.

#6 Sugar.Code on 1 year ago

[QUOTE=StarsOfCassiopeia;5063099] like a potential vinyl/vinyl combo (jacket + facing), and the degree of awful that'd be to make/wear, and if there are any extra challenges to working with something so bulky at the seams. Also as an design opinion question, should I do a "facing" of sorts for the lower portion of the jacket too? It seems to flare out and away from the body, and in some of the animated sequences it looks like it's supposed to be the same material as the outside of the jacket (though it looks black in the concept art, sighs, gotta love inconsistency). [/QUOTE]


I was actually considering making this a little bit ago, so uh, personal opinions/word vomit incoming? As far as making it, vinyl wouldn't really affect the difficulty too much and the seams shouldn't be that bulky if doing a facing, but wearing it? Ehhhh, that's something I personally avoid at any cost unless it's incredibly obvious that's what the fabric is supposed to be, eg: Ann's catsuit. I'm with Penlowe on this, I too was thinking careful tailoring and probably suiting. And for reference you linked, I'm pretty sure it's not black in the concept art, the wings just come out from under the jacket and so they're blocking the view of the inside of the jacket in the front view. As for the flare out and the top portion of the boots, I can't help but wonder if boning could help you achieve that smooth look, and possibly in the vest too? I'm not experienced enough to know if that's a good idea or not, but it was the first thing that came to mind, especially since everything is so structured. (check out the slight flare out at the vest hips and how close it fits, that thing almost reads like a corset to me) And yay to the tape method, that really is the best way to get a pattern like that, especially since he seems to have a slight sort of digitigrade thing going on.

#7 lunaflora on 1 year ago

The under collar can be made the same fabric as the the outer collar. It just means that there will be a neckline seam in the collar+facing+lining combo that is not present on the outside. The red almost looks like a a peau de soie or taffeta (I've seen a beautiful red and black two tone taffeta, seems fitting for this. It shifts from red to black depending on the angle you look at it from.) the vest leather, and the pants vinyl

Try looking into hair canvas as interfacing for the jacket and collar, as well as canvas/coutil for the corset vest if it is going to be tightlacing. I would bone the vest regardless if it is tightlacing or not, if it is very fitted. As for the boots, maybe you can use the very stiff craft interfacing or us foam as interfacing, in addition to padding for those massive hams.

#8 StarsOfCassiopeia on 1 year ago

Re: boot patterning, the tape method was my plan of attack for that from the get-go. I've done it plenty of times already for various armor parts and weird garment tailoring, so I'm not worried about that part of the process in the slightest.

As for the jacket flare, I don't think boning that makes sense when you can achieve that with well placed seams and some interfacing in the right places. Kinda like how you can use darts to create curves, same principle.

Yeah I'm imagining the vest needs a fair bit of structure, though I feel like boning might get a little funky given how low the vest hangs in front of the crotch (I'd have to make shorter channels in the lining and make sure they're positioned to sit well on my torso without leaving those parts to be too floppy). I definitely see what you're saying around the hips though, so maybe just a couple of boning channels on the sides, and probably just a lot of interfacing for the rest. There's not any huge reason for this to be a functional corset at all either, except for maybe if I wanted to use some of that support to help support the wings. That said, I think I'm gonna be way, way better off building a harness that gets hidden by the vest for structural stability, and it has the added bonus of hiding the hardware.

#9 lunaflora on 1 year ago

the boning shouldn't extend down past the illiac crest/hip bone if you can help it, otherwise you won't be able to sit. As for the parts of the vest that extend lower, you could use hair canvas on that too, which would keep it laying smooth while still being flexible in one direction.
I wouldn't bone the jacket at all. it doesn't need that much structure.

#10 StarsOfCassiopeia on 1 year ago

@lunaflora Yeah that's pretty much what I was thinking too.

I'm going for faux leather leggings for the "pants"-- found a couple pairs on Amazon that are cheaper than buying enough yardage of the fabric straight out, and don't involve the labor of having to bother with actually stitching them together (when I've clearly got enough other work to do on this). I swatched a couple of pleathers and vinyls with an order I was already doing for another cosplay, so hopefully seeing that alongside the leggings will help me make a call on the vest, as well as if it looks okay with something like suiting for the jacket. Also found [URL="https://www.moodfabrics.com/black-dull-all-over-foil-knit-pleather-substitute-311402"]this fabric[/URL] on Mood and was intrigued, so I'll let you know if it turns out to be anything worthwhile!

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